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Love & Relationships > Living & Loving

Men Opting Out of Child Support?(2032)

Discussion started on  03/09/2006 01:06:36 PM  by  dallasblkbeauty
2032 Results/102 Pages
News  
03/08/2006  16:14:33 EST
Men's Rights Group Eyes Child Support Stay
By DAVID CRARY
AP National Writer

NEW YORK - Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit - nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men - to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter. The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.

"There's such a spectrum of choice that women have - it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."

Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich.

Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that - because of a physical condition - she could not get pregnant.

Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.

"What I expect to hear (from the court) is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court might rule similarly in Dubay's case.

"The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.

Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.

Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.

"Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government - literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."

Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.

"Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."

"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."

Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

"If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."

The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.

"None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."

I think they should be entitled to a choice.  This sparks a very interesting debate. 
Not that I would support this in any way but if a man decides that he doesn't want anything to do with his child and he gives up parental rights...then he still obligated to pay child support???? I wasn't always clear on this....

Life when the kids are sleep is the best "peace of mind" you can have ......

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This sparks a very interesting debate. 

Already has here.

 

 

Benjamin Franklin:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

Edward R. Murrow:

We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.

Edited by xexling on March 9, 2006 01:27:08 PM
Edited by xexling on March 9, 2006 01:27:37 PM
3 messages have been deleted

A (right) such as parental rights is an intrinsic entitlement, as in to have a relationship with your child.  Such right or entitlement can be waved or surrendered because  (you own it).  But an obligation is a debt of duty, which cannot be waved or surrendered, only satisfied as long as it remains outstanding.  See the problem in these matters is that adults want to assert rights that protect or absolve them from responsibility.  But what they dont understand is that there is one party in the scheme of this mish mosh who ALSO HAS RIGHTS!! and thats the CHILD!!!  Children have a right to be provided for  by their PARENTS!!!  Both of them!  Thats the reason why child support exists.  And considering that the child is the only innocent party in these matters, since they had NO ABILITY to make a choice in the outcome which resulted in their birth, and since THEY will be the one to suffer the most by having been brought into the issue, I believe that THEIR RIGHTS should be paramount above either parent!!!

I think they should be entitled to a choice.  This sparks a very interesting debate. 

 

 

Yeah one that has been going on for some time now over in the "ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN" thread.

'Bout To Hit The Fan...
Average: 5 —  Votes: 1
   Started By progressivebm High Interest
LadyAs...
  1:02 PM
87

 

How 'bout y'all OPT OUTTA this thread & join in over there?

lol

LJx

Edited by lovejonesx on March 9, 2006 01:41:46 PM

*smh*.....them gotdamn kids aint worth NOTHIN!!!!!!!!!....NOTHIN!!!! I tell ya.....*smh*

*walkin the hell out this thread before I Left-Eye this mothaf*cka like she did Andre Rison's house*

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Yes. . . the woman can close her legs!!!  But if a woman opens her legs and has a baby (these days) while abortion is still legal, it must mean that she was AGREEABLE to doing that!!  It may have been an after thought after realizing that she was pregnant, but the man. . . . .not knowing (for a fact) what the woman would do in the event of a pregnancy is certainly taking a chance when he sticks his dick in her!!!. . . especially when the only FACTS he has is his desire NOT TO HAVE A BABY!!!  Im trying to understand why it is that adults dont know that sex was created for the purpose of PROCREATION!!! and that is why birth control was invented!!!   It is an ATTEMPT!!! at preventing the NATURAL BODY FUNCTION CALLED  CONCEPTION!!!  So. . .any 2 people who get together sexually with THAT KNOWLEDGE are in essence agreeing to TAKE THE CHANCE that pregnancy could occur.
This message has been deleted
I'm not clear either but there has to be some legal way to be exempt from child support.  I mean this is why bilogical parents aren't finacially responsible for their children that have been adopted.

I'm not clear either but there has to be some legal way to be exempt from child support.  I mean this is why bilogical parents aren't finacially responsible for their children that have been adopted.

if i recall correctly, once your parental rights are terminated, you have no further obligations to that child. However you can't terminate parental rights solely for the purpose of evading your obligations - terminations have to be approved by a court, which is supposed to delve into the circumstances and not just allow folks to terminate their rights all willy nilly.

And its fairly difficult to get parental rights terminated.

I'm torn on the situation actually.....I can see the male point of view....but I'm not sure how to exactly make it more equitable. Cuz the only things I see are forcing a woman to be an incubator for a child she doesn't want...forcing her to have an abortion of a child she doesn't want....or forcing her to support alone a child she didn't conceive alone. But I can see how men in that situation feel. They have no say so....and once she's knocked up...he's on the hook for the next 18-22 years (depending on if his state laws allow for child support to continue through college or not). There should be some mechanism.....although I wonder if that won't do more harm then good....men could freely go about impregnating women and then just keep saying "it was unplanned and I'm declining/terminating my parental obligations"....with no recourse.

 

So you are saying that when a man sticks his *** in a woman. . .knowing that pregnancy could happen REGARDLESS of birth control attempts. . . . .hes NOT willingly and actively making that choice?  The woman has a gun to his head?
This is what I'm saying there should be some legal general solution to this dilemma.  It's really not fair and I am a woman and a tad feminist.  Just how a dude can't force a woman to keep a baby she shouldn't then be allowed to force him to pay for one he said UP FRONT that he didn't want. 

 they do have a choice.  They can keep their ***s in their pants.

Exactly Deelyte, I was thinking the same thing this morning when I saw this stupid mess on the news.  A real man wants to take care of his child and doesn't try to get out of it by opting out of child support.  Some of these men want the pleasure of having sex but not the responsibility and it is not right.

When biological parents surrender their parental rights they are surrendering them to a party or parties who are WILLING to take up that responsibility in their stead. And a mother who wishes to give up a child for adoption STILL needs authorization from the father, because SHE cannot give away HIS parental rights.  .only her own.  However, in circumstances where the mother declares that she does'nt know who the father is, or if the father never comes forward to respond to the court notice, then the child can be adopted on just the mother's approval.  Now. . . that option is actually in effect for men right now!    If a woman is willing to relieve the man of his parental responsibility and WILLINGLY take them upon herself all she has to do is take care of the child.  There is no law that requires a woman to seek child support!!!    The only time a woman is mandated to seek child support is when she is receiving welfare benefits.  And that child support contribution is not given to HER it is levied and forwarded to the welfare agency to recover a portion of the funds that she receives.
No I am not saying that.  What I am saying is after the fact there is decisions to be made.  They came together to have sex they should come together for a resolution.  I'm saying one's feeling and or opionions shouldn't be more important than the others.  If she decides her feelings are more important and justified for whatever reason then she should be willing to go it alone. 
I doubt that men will have a problem relinquishing rights they never wanted anyway.

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