MTW: There are a lot of generalizations thrown around in the book by the men you interviewed. Such as, white women are submissive, women from "third world" countries are hypersexual, African American women have attitudes. Where do you think these generalizations stem from?
JW: Anyone who has worked with men professionally knows that the attitudes that they have about others, especially women, is a direct result of attitudes they have about themselves. So the generalizations about women stem from the same place where the generalizations about men develop.MTW: I've always been disheartened that black men who travel to Brazil and other places for sex compare their interactions with sex workers to the interactions that they have with black women at home. Do these men really not see the difference between the motives, lives, and perspectives of sex workers versus their wives and girlfriends?
JW: I share your concern, but one of the dynamics which makes this phenomena so complex is that many of women that black men deal with are not just "sex workers." In the chapter "Frigid Black Women," the men argue vehemently that it is not just Brazilian prostitutes that have less hang-ups about sex compared to black women, rather it is Brazilian culture that treats sex and sexuality differently from black women. Another issue is that if they are sex workers, they don't easily correspond to the "traditional" ideas and images we have here in America about prostitutes. Some of this has to do with the difference between legalized prostitution and non-legalized prostitution. In countries where prostitution is legal, you don't have the tyranny of the " pimp" like you do here in the States. As a result, women involved in sex work have far more control of both their finances and sexuality. This is one of the reasons why the Brazilian prostitutes or "program" girls tend to be more educated and are widely considered by men to not be victims. Additionally, women in poor countries don't have to be working as sex workers to want to meet American men. I mention in the book several of the websites where men can find thousands of women waiting to come to the states daily. All the average American male (black or white) has to do is go online and see that there are alternatives to American women.
To your point about motives, it is extremely important to take notice of how men ultimately conclude that all relationships involve similar "transactions." In the chapter "She Knows How To Love Me: The Secret of the Brazilian Attraction" the men talk very candidly about how materialistic black women are in America and how paying for sex is essentially what most men do. They also argue that women in other countries are far less materialistic than women in this country. So given this point of view, some might argue that men were pessimistic about relationships and have these attitudes about women way before they leave the US. In either case, what is really striking is the level of intimacy and interaction that men describe with women overseas but not here in the states.
MTW: Sometimes when reading the thoughts of my brothers regarding African American women, I wanted to throw the book across the room. How do you think the book will help to narrow the divide between African-American men and women?
JW: I apologize. I have not done my job if after reading this book, it has not encouraged you and other black women to want to protect and support young black males in your life, whether it be a son, a nephews, or a cousins by talking to them about the importance of being whole young men who are in tune with their minds, bodies, and emotions. I have not done my job if after having read this book, black women don't want to talk to black males in their lives and ask them in a non-judgmental way, is this how you feel? Is this how you think? And I certainly have not done my job, if I have not encouraged the black middle class to start telling their stories so that there can be a greater understanding of the contradictions of being both privileged and oppressed at the same time.
If I leave you and other women only with anger, pain, frustration, and not with a deeper understanding, not necessarily appreciation, for the issues that impact black men's lives and how they create a certain logic for these trips and why they have such powerful experiences, while they are there, then I simply have not done my job.
The goal of this book was to give both men and women the opportunity to learn more about black men's lives so that ultimately men can assume responsibility for their own issues. The goal was also to help black men and women to get past blaming each other in order to explore how these problems emerged. What I hope is redemptive about this book, is that men-including me-start questioning certain things like male privilege. The word patriarchy has never been a part of our vocabulary. The phrase "women's issues" has never really encouraged us to see how women's lives actually mattered to us. To go back to your first question, collectively we have never been required to answer the question "Are black women necessary?". For the new class of black males, like my son, who will be college educated, professional, etc., we have never been required to deal with both privilege and oppression as a class. In order for men to change, men must increase their ability to distinguish between thinking and feeling and learning to be able to use that ability to resolve relationship problems.
MTW: In the book you mention the fact that many times, black men can't verbally communicate with the Brazilian women because they cannot speak English. But you also write that black men don't see this as a problem. In fact, they see it as a break from hearing black women's voices. If this is the case, how will African American men and women ever begin to talk through our issues and have open, honest discussions?
JW: That particular chapter tried to explore why black men feel so indicted and judged by black women's voices, and how trips overseas become sort of a reprieve from the issues. But while we are speaking about black voices let me say this, if black men in the media like Michael Baisden, Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey, Tavis Smiley, The Black Eagle and others don't either urge, insist, or require black men in the community to talk about the issues raised in this book, then black men and women will never get to the point you're asking about.
You see what happens with men is that they will talk about everything except those aspect of their lives which require them to share and disclose. When it comes to issues that directly affect their interaction and attitudes with women, and create the very foundation for how they respond to these other "real" issues, black men are far less articulate and knowledgeable. They will not talk about their pornography issues, their performance issues, their infidelity issues, their white women, or their work issues.
We may even talk about the "covenant" with America and fail to talk about the "covenant" between men and women. The point is that black men can talk about "real" issues until we fall asleep, just like we do in the barbershop, but rarely are we ever required to talk about issues raised in the book--like how a men's self-esteem and professional status is connected to black women's physical size, whether men above 40 feel like black women above 40 give up on them sexually, how they feel like Mantel Men in their relationships, the potential shame attached to white collar masculinity, does hip hop erase their physicality and sexuality, or does black women's independence excite or frighten them.
So if we are talking about black voices, I would urge your audience to ask black men in media to raise these questions and concerns that are raised in the book. Only when black men are involved in this conversation, can they do what you are asking.
MTW: The last chapter is entitled "Why Black Women Are Necessary." Why did you feel the need to write this chapter?
JW: It felt right that black women would be given the opportunity to respond to some of the statements and claims that men made about their lives in the book. So I started to share with women some of the things that men were saying to me and the first thing that I learned was that women really just wanted to understand why many men they knew or had heard about were taking these trips, or why other men who had not gone seemed hell-bent on going.
The other important consideration for this final chapter was that men have to be exposed to women's issues if they are to respond to their own issues and challenges. It cannot be taken for granted that men will understand or be sympathetic to women's issues. Part of being privileged means not having to think about certain things. The same way that white people don't have to worry about being racially profiled, or having a personal mistake being attributed to an entire race, men don't have to carry the burden about certain things the way women do. The average black women by the time she is in 18, if not sooner, begins to wonder whether she will get married and spend the rest of her life with a black male. Yet, the question of whether black men will marry a black women rarely if ever comes to our consciousness as men. This speaks to our privileged position of not having to be concerned about such things. Therefore, it is essential that we talk to our young males and our men, early and often about why black women are necessary.
I just had a man share with me that he read my book and what was disorienting to him, as he explained it, was that while he saw all of his feelings and thoughts reflected in the book, at the same time he felt it was a critique of his experiences and he was not quite sure "whose side" I was on. His question is helpful because it highlights the dual responsibility I have taken with my life of advocating for both men and women. On a strictly personal level, I have a daughter and a son. I have a responsibility to fight for both of their lives.
I certainly have not done my job in writing this book if men in general-and black men in particular-do not begin to see parts of themselves that they need to examine, talk about, and change.
Visit Jewel Woods online at the Renaissance Male Project.
Felicia Pride is an author, speaker and welcomed voice of her generation. She's the founder of The BackList (www.thebacklist.net), an organization dedicated to using the power of words to uplift individuals and their communities. Felicia facilitates writing, publishing, and other creative workshops, curates events, and develops community initiatives. Shes a featured speaker at schools, universities, and events around the country, and has written for an array of publications. Her most recent book is The Message: 100 Life Lessons from Hip-Hop's Greatest Songs. Visit her online at www.feliciapride.com.
Rio & Exotic Locales
Rio de Janerio offers beaches and much, much more. If you get tired of the beach, you can take a tour of one of the following fabulous sites. Start planning your winter getaway now! Photo: Kelly Carter
Refreshing coconut water can be purchased on the beaches of Rio for around $2. Photo: Kelly Carter
The beautiful people flock to Ipanema and Leblon beaches with trendy Posto 9 on Ipanema drawing the hippest and sexiest sun worshippers. Photo: Kelly Carter
The neighborhood of Leblon has turned into one of Rio's most happening neighborhoods because of its beaches, restaurants, bars and hotels. Photo: Kelly Carter
Go to Helisight.com to book your helicopter tour over Rio. Catch a birds-eye view of the beaches, including Copacabana, the city and its monuments. Photo: Kelly Carter
Sugar Loaf Mountain is just one of many sites one can see from Corcovado (Hunchback) Mountain, which offers an incredible panoramic view from 2,329-feet above the city of Rio. Photo: Kelly Carter
Standing 124-feet high and perched atop Corcovado Mountain, the 1,145-ton Cristo Redentor (Christ the Redeemer), inaugurated in 1931, is one of Rio's most recognizable landmarks and a must-visit tourist attraction. It is reachable by elevator or walking 220 steps. Tours such as Jeep Tour stop here. Photo: Kelly Carter
Palacio Guanabara (Guanabara Palace), built in 1853, is the former home of Princess Isabel, who freed the slaves in 1888. The Governor of Rio's offices occupy the building now. Photo: Kelly Carter
The bucolic and slightly bohemian neighborhood of Santa Teresa sits above Rio and features picturesque cobblestone streets, colorful restaurants and old, traditional houses occupied by artists and their workshops. Photo: Kelly Carter
Grilled meat is king in Rio and throughout all of Brazil. Gaucho chefs continually bring beef, pork, lamb and chicken also on skewers to diners then slice it tableside at the all-you-can-eat churrascarias like Porcao (pictured here), which has several locations in Brazil and two in the United States. Photo: Kelly Carter
1. Ms. Pride, I cried when I read this article. I love black men and did not know that things effect them in the same way that it effect us. I learned that black men do not have feelings and it pretty hard to hurt them emotionally. I just seen black men as strong and handsome. I love black men, but I have been hurt by a man that I loved deeply. I mean I did not want to do the things sexually that he wanted to do because I was raised in the chruch. And I was taught that sex was bad before marriage and we were not married. I am so sad to know that black men are turning away from black women. I am not mad; it just hurt to know that I have been having attitudes with black men every since I left my children's father.
To all the brothers out there I am truely sorry, because if no one else do not know, I know that black men are condemn in America.
Black and Pride at 12:53PM on May 9th 2008